Why Do Nottingham Forest Keep Failing?

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Without going back too far in history.

Owners: Nigel Doughty, Fawaz Al-Hasawi and Evangelos Marinakis. 

Managers British: Billy Davies, Steve McClaren, Steve Cotterill, Sean O' Driscoll, Alex Mcleish, Stuart Pearce, Dougie Freedman, Mark Warburton, Martin O'Neil and Chris Hughton. 

Managers Foreign: Phillipe Montanier, Aitor Karanka and Sabri Lamouchi.

Three very different types of owners and so many different types of managers but the outcome is always the same.

So why are Nottingham Forest constantly failing?

[Mcforest]

That's the question really mate. I was actually happy with signings thought they were of a good standard and added to the first team but they are not performing at all

[Widdow]

End of the day (and I know you won’t like it Sniff) is the owners. They are the knees who make decision from the top that ultimately governs how the club is run. They choose the manager and the directors. They provide the money when is required (prime example was January when they didn’t). It hasn’t just been this owner, it’s been the same for years, but at the moment these are in place and not living up to the billing of saviours.

It is difficult time’s and they are coping with problems the other owners have never had to deal with, and also luck and timing comes into to place, and can say year on year we have improved but the style of football remains bland, and their new appointment CH continues to play with his foot on the break and make use of a large and unbalanced squad, which is result of the owners tenure.

Other new owners in the same time have got things right and have got their clubs running well on and off the pitch., let’s not talk again about the farce of being 21 Seconds late on paperwork. I have said my thoughts of Vrentezos and feel he is failing the club.

The owners keep throwing their unwanted players at us, and has I have said many time’s before do not have a transfer strategy in place.

We didn’t need Cafu, Colback, Arter, Fred when we already had Yates and Sow. We could have saved money and brought in a player like Mowatt, who can be the box to box mid that we needEd, this isn’t hindsight after he has scored two unbelievable goals last week, I said it loads of times in the summer for other posters to say, well he only plays for Barnsley so he can’t be any good. Well Barnsley ahead of us in the league now.

If it wasn’t for the Academy and selling our best young players we really would be up shit creak.

The Marinakis Manifesto has failed this far. They don’t make promise but they certainly havent delivered !

[Widdow]

When will these new owners be questioned and stand accountable? They don’t even talk to us fans and simply ignore us.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

You’ve written the reason already. 13 different managers in the last 10 years. Constant changes of direction, knee jerk reactions to the current situation but never a long term strategy.

Each of those manager wanted their own players brought in to suit their own style, hundreds of players in that time mostly bought in a panic with little view to the future, millions wasted in fees and wages.

Result of all of that, the one thing that was working, our brilliant academy gets plundered every year to pay for the failings and incompetence of both the playing squad and the senior management.

[JollyLolly]

Everybody from the top down (including supporters) wants instant success, it's very rare that this in fact happens. We need a club ethos, a way of playing and patience and rewards will eventually come our way. Good entertaining football played the right way, a younger aged and more enthusiastic team (not names or last payday players). Give a younger coach the opportunity, in the list Sniff gave out I did not note one of those managers or coaches fall into this category or even given the opportunity. When Sabri left they could have considered promoting CC from the under 23's and instead let him go to Luton, we should or could have reversed this by poaching Paul Hart to come back to Forest as an old head behind the management team, I also see the Reidy is doing well in the current under 23's role.

[Tricky]

Without going back too far in history.

Owners: Nigel Doughty, Fawaz Al-Hasawi and Evangelos Marinakis. 

Managers British: Billy Davies, Steve McClaren, Steve Cotterill, Sean O' Driscoll, Alex Mcleish, Stuart Pearce, Dougie Freedman, Mark Warburton, Martin O'Neil and Chris Hughton. 

Managers Foreign: Phillipe Montanier, Aitor Karanka and Sabri Lamouchi.

Three very different types of owners and so many different types of managers but the outcome is always the same.

So why are we constantly failing?

Good question Sniff.

I have tried to write this down, but without compiling a dossier the size of 'War and Peace', I cannot give a definitive answer.

I am going to have to suggest the squad size is far too big and always has been. Due to it being so big, it allows players to get into their own little cliques rather than as a solid unit. I am not suggesting any of the cliques are troublesome or are rocking the boat, but the squad are not gelling as one.

Too many signings. It has been reported the club have signed over 70 players in three years. A lot of them have now departed again, but again, it does not bode well for the squad to gel as a complete unit with such a high turnover of faces. There could be too much of a reliance on loan signings. Most loans end at the end of a particular season, although some are for part of a season. It has been very rare to find a loan signing willing to roll his sleeves up and give it his 100%, Colback is the only one that springs to mind that bucked this theory, although, since we have made him a permanent signing, he has been a bit of a let down! There are reasons why players are loaned out to another club.......to give young talent an opportunity to play in a lower league for experience or they just aren't good enough to get into their own clubs matchday squad. 

Manager Merry-go-round. The club has, in recent years an atrocious history of hiring and firing managers. Often these sackings have come about at the wrong time. Sabri, being a prime example. They kept him at the club, allowing him to bring in the players he wanted, then sacked him with just a week or so of the transfer window opening left for Hughton to bring in players he wanted. That was after Sabri had brought in 13 new signings (whether Sabri did actually bring in all of the players or someone else at the club did is a contentious issue and is not an area I am going to get into on this debate). Far too many of the signings have not particularly wanted to play for Nottingham Forest and have only turned up for another pay cheque. New managers have often come into the club and are having to manage players that do not suit their particular style of play (see O'Neill and Lamouchi re: Carvalho). Hughton has come into a club with an absolute array of defenders and DCM's, many of which are not good enough. There is nothing he can do now, apart from try and get them to perform to their best. There are another 13 matches to play BEFORE the next transfer window. That means we will have played 22 matches with the squad we currently have. 

We have had good managers, we have had bad. We have had good owners, we have had the sublimely ridiculous. We have had good players, we have had bad. 

When i first started supporting Nottingham Forest (47 years ago), we were languishing around 14th, 15th in the old Division 2. We are currently 6 places below that, but I would expect us, on current form, to be around 14th or 15th come the seasons end. Nothing has changed in 47 years. Yes we did have a few good years at the top of Division 1, but those have by and large been the exception rather than the rule. As fans, are our expectations too high for a club of this standing? Do we, as supporters put too much pressure on our players to perform to the highest standards possible? Are we expecting too much from them?

I look forward to others opinions on this

[ozzyten10]

You’ve written the reason already. 13 different managers in the last 10 years. Constant changes of direction, knee jerk reactions to the current situation but never a long term strategy.

Each of those manager wanted their own players brought in to suit their own style, hundreds of players in that time mostly bought in a panic with little view to the future, millions wasted in fees and wages.

Result of all of that, the one thing that was working, our brilliant academy gets plundered every year to pay for the failings and incompetence of both the playing squad and the senior management.

This is succinct and a perfect explanation of our woes

[JollyLolly]

SM, your observations are a microcosm of our failings as a club, trouble it will not change in the foreseeable future

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

End of the day (and I know you won’t like it Sniff) is the owners. They are the knees who make decision from the top that ultimately governs how the club is run. They choose the manager and the directors. They provide the money when is required (prime example was January when they didn’t). It hasn’t just been this owner, it’s been the same for years, but at the moment these are in place and not living up to the billing of saviours.

It is difficult time’s and they are coping with problems the other owners have never had to deal with, and also luck and timing comes into to place, and can say year on year we have improved but the style of football remains bland, and their new appointment CH continues to play with his foot on the break and make use of a large and unbalanced squad, which is result of the owners tenure.

Other new owners in the same time have got things right and have got their clubs running well on and off the pitch., let’s not talk again about the farce of being 21 Seconds late on paperwork. I have said my thoughts of Vrentezos and feel he is failing the club.

The owners keep throwing their unwanted players at us, and has I have said many time’s before do not have a transfer strategy in place.

We didn’t need Cafu, Colback, Arter, Fred when we already had Yates and Sow. We could have saved money and brought in a player like Mowatt, who can be the box to box mid that we needEd, this isn’t hindsight after he has scored two unbelievable goals last week, I said it loads of times in the summer for other posters to say, well he only plays for Barnsley so he can’t be any good. Well Barnsley ahead of us in the league now.

If it wasn’t for the Academy and selling our best young players we really would be up S**t creak.

The Marinakis Manifesto has failed this far. They don’t make promise but they certainly havent delivered !

When will these new owners be questioned and stand accountable? They don’t even talk to us fans and simply ignore us.

Not just talking about the present though Widdow. What about the past?

3 owners, 13 managers, 100's of players and always the same result.

Is there anything we haven't tried? We've tried so many different ways with so many different personnel and it's ended in failure every time.

[ozzyten10]

There were 2 times we had some reasonable success.
Paul Hart- had to get rid of high wage earners from platt era. Went with youth. Had a season of relative struggle but blooded a number of young players. The season after - still cut costs but a got a firing striker back in Johnson and a brilliant loan of huckerby. Missed out by a gnats whisker to warnock. Shoved under the bus the next season with no backing and shocking recruitment.

BD- it’s been done to death. But he was a superb manager who got results. Pity he’s a complete gobshite.

[Widdow]

End of the day (and I know you won’t like it Sniff) is the owners. They are the knees who make decision from the top that ultimately governs how the club is run. They choose the manager and the directors. They provide the money when is required (prime example was January when they didn’t). It hasn’t just been this owner, it’s been the same for years, but at the moment these are in place and not living up to the billing of saviours.

It is difficult time’s and they are coping with problems the other owners have never had to deal with, and also luck and timing comes into to place, and can say year on year we have improved but the style of football remains bland, and their new appointment CH continues to play with his foot on the break and make use of a large and unbalanced squad, which is result of the owners tenure.

Other new owners in the same time have got things right and have got their clubs running well on and off the pitch., let’s not talk again about the farce of being 21 Seconds late on paperwork. I have said my thoughts of Vrentezos and feel he is failing the club.

The owners keep throwing their unwanted players at us, and has I have said many time’s before do not have a transfer strategy in place.

We didn’t need Cafu, Colback, Arter, Fred when we already had Yates and Sow. We could have saved money and brought in a player like Mowatt, who can be the box to box mid that we needEd, this isn’t hindsight after he has scored two unbelievable goals last week, I said it loads of times in the summer for other posters to say, well he only plays for Barnsley so he can’t be any good. Well Barnsley ahead of us in the league now.

If it wasn’t for the Academy and selling our best young players we really would be up S**t creak.

The Marinakis Manifesto has failed this far. They don’t make promise but they certainly havent delivered !

When will these new owners be questioned and stand accountable? They don’t even talk to us fans and simply ignore us.

Not just talking about the present though Widdow. What about the past?

3 owners, 13 managers, 100's of players and always the same result.

Is there anything we haven't tried?  We've tried so many different ways with so many different personnel and it's ended in failure every time.

I did talk about past, blamed previous owners also the caveat right now unprecedented times for new owners to deal with, but so far, that have delivered anything on that manifesto as of now