The Infrastructure Projects

[Tricky]

Does anyone know if there has been any movement on the planning application for the new stand?

I have read elsewhere that tonight's planning meeting did not discuss the application and it was the last meeting planned prior to determination date expiring; is this the case?

If so, what implications does this have?

The statutory time limits are usually 13 weeks for applications for major development and 8 weeks for all other types of development (unless an application is subject to an Environmental Impact Assessment, in which case a 16 week limit applies)(This, I would suspect to be the case for the new stand and flats complex, as they will have an impact on the local environment).

Where a planning application takes longer than the statutory period to decide, and an extended period has not been agreed with the applicant, the government’s policy is that the decision should be made within 26 weeks at most in order to comply with the ‘planning guarantee’.

The planning guarantee is the government’s policy that no application should spend more than a year with decision-makers, including any appeal. In practice this means that planning applications should be decided in no more than 26 weeks, allowing a similar period for any appeal. The planning guarantee does not replace the statutory time limits for determining planning applications.*

[Jean_claude_killy]

Thanks Tricky

Given that the process has already exceeded 26 weeks, would it be safe to assume that an extension has been agreed?

[Sausage Roll]

I thought the application was being discussed on the 19th?

Scratch that, the deadline is 19th, not the discussion.

[Tricky]

I thought the application was being discussed on the 19th?

Scratch that, the deadline is 19th, not the discussion.

I am pretty certain that the deadlines would be discussed directly with Planning Officers and would not be subject to the Planning Committee approving an extension. Therefore, if the deadline is the 19th, the club still have 4 days to discuss with Planning Officers any further extensions being made. 

Planning Officers are paid employees of the Council, whilst the Planning Committee is made up of Elected Councillors (Members). The Officers do 99.5% of all planning application work, the committee only approve or reject planning applications tabled for their meetings, which are often the larger projects or if there is an issue surrounding law, i.e. plans have been drawn up to carry out works in a designated conservation area, or a building has been erected without planning permission etc.

I think Benoy know what they are doing and will be on the case regarding this, unless, of course, EM has decided against going ahead with the plans due to him not getting the green light for the flats complex, which would be helping to pay for the new stand!

[Tricky]

I have just had a look at the planning application again and have noted that the application is an 'Hybrid' planning application, which is usually made up of part 'Full Application' and part 'Outline Planning Application'.

A Full Plan App is an application that sets everything out how the developers expect the finished project to look like, including all materials used, outlay within the structure etc.

An Outline Plan App is just a way of expressing an intention that the developer is considering building that project. It is used to gauge opinion from the Council and would seek recommendations, potential obstructions, guidance even as to what the Council would expect the development to adhere to, i.e. carbon footprints, highways issues, wildlife issues, vista issues (is the building too imposing on the surrounding area, would it stick out like a sore thumb on the horizon etc).

From our perspective, we are really only interested in the rebuilding of the stand and ground improvements, which is the Full Planning Application and has been issued in its final glory. The flats complex has only been issued as the Outline Planning Application. The application was submitted on 29th November 2020 which was only 7 weeks ago. This means that the club have 6 weeks, at least to get planning permission for the stand rebuild, the end of Feb. The stand, with it being much higher than the current stand, may subject it to an Environment Impact Assessment, which would give the club an additional three weeks. This would be the third week of March. 

Under the Governments Planning Guarantee, the club have until the 23rd May to obtain permission.

This is how I understand the situation, given the club did not submit their plans until 29th November, which is the date on the Rushcliffe BC website.

Anyone who can correct me if I am wrong, please do so, but I do not think there is anything to get too concerned about just yet!

[Strawberry Avenger]

Informative, Tricky.

That makes sense and is a lot clearer.

I was wondering if the stand was tied to the flats. It appears not as the application for planning is hybrid.

So now it's just a matter of time regarding dates above.

SA.

[Jean_claude_killy]

Could it be that the Club and Benoy are being pretty clever here?

Assuming the Stand gets approval as a stand alone project and the apartments get rejected as a stand alone project; are there not ways of fast tracking the appeal process for residential planning applications all the way to Central Government now?

Or is that adding 2 and 2 and coming up with a lot more than four?

[Tricky]

Could it be that the Club and Benoy are being pretty clever here?

Assuming the Stand gets approval as a stand alone project and the apartments get rejected as a stand alone project; are there not ways of fast tracking the appeal process for residential planning applications all the way to Central Government now?

Or is that adding 2 and 2 and coming up with a lot more than four?

The planning guarantee is in place to ensure planning applications take no longer than a year to complete. As the residential part of the project is outline, the developers will be in direct dialect with the Council over issues raised during their consultation period, where there are about 1,700 comments made so far (both for and against). This has been put in place to ensure planning applications don't drag on and on.

How the application raises from the 13/16 week stage to the 26 week stage, I am really not sure, but the remaining 26 weeks have been included to deal with any appeals required to overcome any issues raised during the planning application and its committee decision, once presented to them. 

Planning regulations have changed considerably since I was involved in them. For example, when I was on the Planning Committee on Nottingham City Council, the planning process for the Trinity Square redevelopment took almost 5 years to complete from its initial planning application being presented to the committee and rejected, to it being re-submitted and being approved (incidentally, I voted against the final scheme, as it didn't have that 'WOW' factor that part of the city was crying out for, but was out voted!) There were no Planning guarantees when I was doing the business  :-/ .

[Reds73]

Could it be that the Club and Benoy are being pretty clever here?

Assuming the Stand gets approval as a stand alone project and the apartments get rejected as a stand alone project; are there not ways of fast tracking the appeal process for residential planning applications all the way to Central Government now?

Or is that adding 2 and 2 and coming up with a lot more than four?

Dont think it would get done if the apartments are rejected.

Effectively the sale of the apartments are paying for the redevelopment of the stand

[Tricky]

Could it be that the Club and Benoy are being pretty clever here?

Assuming the Stand gets approval as a stand alone project and the apartments get rejected as a stand alone project; are there not ways of fast tracking the appeal process for residential planning applications all the way to Central Government now?

Or is that adding 2 and 2 and coming up with a lot more than four?

Dont think it would get done if the apartments are rejected.

Effectively the sale of the apartments are paying for the redevelopment of the stand

This is what I don't understand.

The apartments are supposed to be raising the funds needed to build the stand. Yet the planning application is for Full Planning permission for the stand, which is an outright planning application, but the apartments are only in for Outline Planning permission, which means Benoy aren't ready yet to go with that planning application and are basically testing the water to see what can and cannot be done.

The apartments side of things are for 250 apartments, which sold for £100,000 each (just a round figure for the sake of arguing) would raise just £25M. That is just a quarter of the total cost of the entire development. Even if each apartment were to be sold for £200,000 each, that is only £50M and half of the project cost. I do appreciate my estimations may be on the low side, but I hope you can see the point I am trying to make here. The sale of the apartments will not raise sufficient funds for the entire build of new stand, ground improvements and apartments. Each apartment would have to sell for about £1M each IMO to raise £250M, which would leave EM with a profit. But are there 250 people in and around Nottingham prepared to invest £1M in a riverside property?

The initial project, excluding the apartment building was quoted at £100M for the stand, museum, shop, new boathouses, levelling of the Bridgford End roof and works to the Cloughie stand and Trent End.

[Jasper Scarrott]

Could it be that the Club and Benoy are being pretty clever here?

Assuming the Stand gets approval as a stand alone project and the apartments get rejected as a stand alone project; are there not ways of fast tracking the appeal process for residential planning applications all the way to Central Government now?

Or is that adding 2 and 2 and coming up with a lot more than four?

Dont think it would get done if the apartments are rejected.

Effectively the sale of the apartments are paying for the redevelopment of the stand

Why not? What makes you think Marinakis won't put his hand in his pocket? Don't think it affects FFP does it?

[Strawberry Avenger]

Could it be that the Club and Benoy are being pretty clever here?

Assuming the Stand gets approval as a stand alone project and the apartments get rejected as a stand alone project; are there not ways of fast tracking the appeal process for residential planning applications all the way to Central Government now?

Or is that adding 2 and 2 and coming up with a lot more than four?

Dont think it would get done if the apartments are rejected.

Effectively the sale of the apartments are paying for the redevelopment of the stand

This is what I don't understand.

The apartments are supposed to be raising the funds needed to build the stand. Yet the planning application is for Full Planning permission for the stand, which is an outright planning application, but the apartments are only in for Outline Planning permission, which means Benoy aren't ready yet to go with that planning application and are basically testing the water to see what can and cannot be done.

The apartments side of things are for 250 apartments, which sold for £100,000 each (just a round figure for the sake of arguing) would raise just £25M. That is just a quarter of the total cost of the entire development. Even if each apartment were to be sold for £200,000 each, that is only £50M and half of the project cost. I do appreciate my estimations may be on the low side, but I hope you can see the point I am trying to make here. The sale of the apartments will not raise sufficient funds for the entire build of new stand, ground improvements and apartments. Each apartment would have to sell for about £1M each IMO to raise £250M, which would leave EM with a profit. But are there 250 people in and around Nottingham prepared to invest £1M in a riverside property?

The initial project, excluding the apartment building was quoted at £100M for the stand, museum, shop, new boathouses, levelling of the Bridgford End roof and works to the Cloughie stand and Trent End.

Couldn't they build a new ground for that..? :o

How much did Brentford's stadium cost..?

SA.