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So far, So Good? - Printable Version

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So far, So Good? - woody - 19-08-2018

Not in my eyes. Our luck is going to run out soon and with that defense it could be a spanking we get.

Considering the recruitment during the close season, bar West Brom its been an abject start from a performance point of view. I would be happier if we were on zero points but the performances were good. The showing so far points to another long season.

Problem area from my point of view to start with are our two full backs are defensive liabilities. Luckily here we have two players in the squad who can probably solve that problem. Solve our problems there and there will be far less chances being created against us and our centre halves may be able to concentrate on defending their part of the pitch than having to worry about our wide.

Even after the West Brom performance, I was concerned that the show had been ran by Geddy. He was never going to be able to keep that level of performance up. He has gone quiet again and no coincidense that the team as a whole have done too. The central midfield position is vital to the overall performance of the team. Lose that part of the game and the rest is uphill. I never wanted Colback back to be honest, I would have rather us spent on a more dynamic player who can carry the ball, who has an edge and who can put a cruncher in to lift the mood of the whole team and crowd on a match day. In watson and Colback, we have two plodders who give defensive cover. Sorry but thats about all they bring to the table. 

The Portugese boys have yet to fire. There's promise there but so far thats been all. SUtton said on the radio yesterday that they were lightweight. Ok, no problem if you have the right combination in midfield but at the moment we havent and its not allowing them to show what they are good at. Ball at their feet and players running off them. Its not hapening.

Grabban is isoalted. He scores everywhere he goes so he hasnt become poor overnight, his performances are down to a team problems clearly. Long balls up to an isolated figure? Surely we have to improve our method of delivery to him and get players supporting quicker. That isnt so easy when we're on the back foot and lying so deep down the pitch. More midfield control required.

How do we put it right? Karanka surely has to drop the two full backs and pick Robinson and Byram. I honestly think the whole defense would be better as a result whether the central combination be Figs and Fox, Dawson and Hefele, the unit would improve. 

Midfield, we dont seem to have the player at the club who can take control of the centre of the park. Geddy has to be in the mod or perhaps better supported but in my mind, Karanka has to really colve that conumdrum. Sell Brereton and recruit? It may be the only answer.

I really think our problems can be much improved if those two areas are addressed, lets see.

Of a special mention to Pants. That first goal is his all day long. As a goalkeeper and especially one his size, that cross was his and he wants an almighty bollocking for that one. 6 foot 7 fairy who no forward fears. Similar scenario to Shilton Maradonna hand of God goal, we can all blame a bit of skullduggery but at the end of the day, a goalie has to be brave and do the necessary's when it matters. Anyone remember a German keeper called Harold Schumacher?


RE: So far, so good? - Redgirl - 19-08-2018

(19-08-2018, 04:02 AM)woody Wrote: Not in my eyes. Our luck is going to run out soon and with that defense it could be a spanking we get.

Considering the recruitment during the close season, bar West Brom its been an abject start from a performance point of view. I would be happier if we were on zero points but the performances were good. The showing so far points to another long season.

Problem area from my point of view to start with are our two full backs are defensive liabilities. Luckily here we have two players in the squad who can probably solve that problem. Solve our problems there and there will be far less chances being created against us and our centre halves may be able to concentrate on defending their part of the pitch than having to worry about our wide.

Even after the West Brom performance, I was concerned that the show had been ran by Geddy. He was never going to be able to keep that level of performance up. He has gone quiet again and no coincidense that the team as a whole have done too. The central midfield position is vital to the overall performance of the team. Lose that part of the game and the rest is uphill. I never wanted Colback back to be honest, I would have rather us spent on a more dynamic player who can carry the ball, who has an edge and who can put a cruncher in to lift the mood of the whole team and crowd on a match day. In watson and Colback, we have two plodders who give defensive cover. Sorry but thats about all they bring to the table. 

The Portugese boys have yet to fire. There's promise there but so far thats been all. SUtton said on the radio yesterday that they were lightweight. Ok, no problem if you have the right combination in midfield but at the moment we havent and its not allowing them to show what they are good at. Ball at their feet and players running off them. Its not hapening.

Grabban is isoalted. He scores everywhere he goes so he hasnt become poor overnight, his performances are down to a team problems clearly. Long balls up to an isolated figure? Surely we have to improve our method of delivery to him and get players supporting quicker. That isnt so easy when we're on the back foot and lying so deep down the pitch. More midfield control required.

How do we put it right? Karanka surely has to drop the two full backs and pick Robinson and Byram. I honestly think the whole defense would be better as a result whether the central combination be Figs and Fox, Dawson and Hefele, the unit would improve. 

Midfield, we dont seem to have the player at the club who can take control of the centre of the park. Geddy has to be in the mod or perhaps better supported but in my mind, Karanka has to really colve that conumdrum. Sell Brereton and recruit? It may be the only answer.

I really think our problems can be much improved if those two areas are addressed, lets see.

Of a special mention to Pants. That first goal is his all day long. As a goalkeeper and especially one his size, that cross was his and he wants an almighty bollocking for that one. 6 foot 7 fairy who no forward fears. Similar scenario to Shilton Maradonna hand of God goal, we can all blame a bit of skullduggery but at the end of the day, a goalie has to be brave and do the necessary's when it matters. Anyone remember a German keeper called Harold Schumacher?
Totally agree with the above, disappointed we are persisting with 2 full backs who just aren't up to it. I love Ben O but not in that position square peg in round hole IMO.
Midfield we need someone more dynamic, a consistent Geddy type player.
I don't know what the problem is for strikers at Forest, we never seem to quite get them firing on all four cylinders, I'm sure Grabben will come good but we need him to come good now, all these points we are dropping will tell at the end of the season, as we well know every point counts, if they are finding it hard now how will they find it on a cold rainy day in January?


RE: So far, so good? - wassy04 - 19-08-2018

I agree with some of this, I think abject is a bit unfair. We were poor today sure and very average v reading but still dominated first two games. Completely agree on full backs Byram would already be in if he’d arrived sooner. I’m less convinced he’s going to drop Osborn although I really hope so as all the fans can see it’s a big issue.

Completely agree on Colback bang average midfielder, I wonder if he’ll try Osborn there. I hope not.

As for the Portuguese lads Carvalho got a good assist yesterday, Dias should’ve played some part too. I think Dias has looked really good strong hard working just a few duff passes every now and again. For me he’s way better than Lolley who whilst be very good at running with the ball doesn’t offer much else IMO. Been surprised by cash obviously excellent work rate but his finish yesterday was excellent. Hard to argue he’s earned his place right now.

And finally strikers, most fans are in agreement that Murphy offers very little. Grabban player well against WBA without scoring. Not so good since hopefully a few goals will get him going. Soudani looks like he could do a job up front. Although I would like to say about soudani that just because he scored twice doesn’t suddenly make him a great player. He was rubbish against WBA when he came on. Not sure he’s a midfielder, maybe not got the touch or passing range from what I’ve seen so far. Looks like a good centre forward though. Hope he gets a chance that’s where he’s played his whole career I thought anyway


RE: So far, so good? - Turkish - 19-08-2018

5 games unbeaten from a squad that has had an absolute overhaul, performances have been extremely patchy which is exactly to be expected when you have such massive changes, however the never say die spirit is in abundance and results breed confidence confidence brings this squad closer together quicker and performances follow

Its small steps not wholesale changes that are needed but again it won't be long before they are up to speed, to think that good performances and no points at this stage of the season would be anything other than disastrous to the point fans talking new manager would be at least whispers in the air by this point are testimony to a complete misunderstanding if you think 6 points in 4 games is anything less than what you should be hoping for

This is not a fingers crossed and hope half the squad come good season this is a squad that is good enough to challenge not by a long way Soudini is being carefully managed and will no doubt start next Saturday Dawson won't be far behind and over the next few games fitness levels aside Robinson and Byram will become the first choice fullbacks. We now have a week to prepare for 3 games in 7 days and again AK will be thinking about managing fitness, it wouldn't shock me if its more of the same this side of the international break

We have our part to play and as fans and what a part we are playing unprecedented season ticket sales, sell outs and large away contingents and this is holiday season. It would be an absolute crying shame if we cannot show a little bit of patience and allow the team time to gel and build the combinations across the team that can flourish

IMO the opening comments are an over reaction, not withstanding reference to the performances which are absolutely spot on we have got out of jail 2 times now however that being the case we get 4 extra points for Brizzle who we should have beaten easily and WBA who should have been long dispatched before the last 20 minutes of daftness took place but that's football for you

The original question is so far so good, I reckon you've hit the nail on the head with that, not great, not brilliant, not anything to write home about or get overly excited about, just a good old fashioned scrappy, some good, some bad performances underpinned by a 5 game unbeaten run which for me turns average into good


RE: So far, So Good? - woody - 19-08-2018

Hmmmm, what came first? The chicken or the egg. I dont want to get into the who should please who first, the team or the crowd because thats probably another thread. The crowd will react as they did against West Brom but need a little encouragemtn like they do at all clubs. No set of fans to my knowledge endlessly happy clap.As I said though, another thread...

My orignal message was that I wasnt too impressed by how we are playing and I think its fair to say that sooner or later we will get our come uppance unless we crank up our standards. I can concede that Karanka is still in some respects taking a look and then going to use the best of the players in most of the matches but he has also said that its a squad and all will play their part ver the whole season. So it will never be a case of this is the best eleven and we'll stick with it. So no matter how badly Darwikya and Osborne play, we re going to see them again fairly often. Thats a worry for me because neither are growing into their positions and are even less likely to standing in for real full backs.

Our midfield problems are also less likely to be resolved by 'gelling'. I hope that Aitor has a plan. A season long loan for a dominant midfielder who can take the pressure off Geddy and the Portugese boys. More posssession is going to move the team further up the field and the further up the field we can get, the better supported Grabban, Murphy or Soudani will be.

I apologise if I sound like a stuck record, but central midfield is key.


RE: So far, So Good? - Sausage Roll - 19-08-2018

I'm satisfied with the start we've made. Not blown away but not downcast either. I'd say we probably deserve one point more than we've got, having dropped two against WBA but stolen one from Wigan.

If was probably unrealistic to expect us to immediately start playing teams off the park with 13 new players to bed in. We've shown how well we can play against West Brom, now we need to see it more consistently.

The defence needs to improve, no question. I like Osborn but it sounds like he struggled vs. Wigan so perhaps it's time to give Robinson a start in the league now. Darikwa is good going forward but gives the ball away a lot and can get caught out defensively - he got skinned for Wigan's penalty. I hope Byram gets in the team soon as I think he's the better player.

I don’t feel Fox has done much wrong, if anything Figueredo has looked the more shaky, so maybe it's time to get Dawson back in if Hefele isn't quite ready yet.

Colback does so much that isn't noticed so for me he should start every game in the league. Guedioura has been outstanding - if he's injured for a while then the choice is between Watson and Yates I guess.

Carvalho has shown in fits and starts what he's capable of, which is what I'd expect. He's barely more than a kid in a new team and country - I think it'd be wrong to expect him to run games already. His pressing and pass for Cash's goal vs. Wigan were excellent. Dias looks pacy and dangerous, just Gonclaves been a bit off the pace as yet.

It's a shame Grabban didn't bag the penalty as the goal would've done him the world of good. Feels a bit early to be writing him off yet though. I'd be using Brereton as his understudy rather than Murphy but it seems his future could lie elsewhere so I hope we bring someone else in - we'll need to.

Soudani looks a real character and livewire and has to be pushing for a start soon. Cash has shown a tremendous attitude. Left out of the team at the start of the season but played his way back into it. I do wonder if Brereton has been sulking a bit and that's why we're considering the offer?

We're four league games in, still unbeaten and at the right end of the table without having played brilliantly yet aside from one game. I think there's a lot to be optimistic about. If it gets to ten or fifteen games and we're still talking about waiting to click or hit our stride then maybe there's cause for concern. For me I'm pretty happy as I think there's so much more to come.


RE: So far, so good? - Strawberry Avenger - 19-08-2018

(19-08-2018, 08:47 AM)Turkish Wrote: 5 games unbeaten from a squad that has had an absolute overhaul, performances have been extremely patchy which is exactly to be expected  when you have such massive changes, however the never say die spirit is in abundance and results breed confidence confidence brings this squad closer together quicker and performances follow

Its small steps not wholesale changes that are needed but again it won't be long before they are up to speed, to think that good performances and no points at this stage of the season would be anything other than disastrous to the point fans talking new manager would be at least whispers in the air by this point are testimony to a complete misunderstanding if you think 6 points in 4 games is anything less than what you should be hoping for

This is not a fingers crossed and hope half the squad come good season this is a squad that is good enough to challenge not by a long way Soudini is being carefully managed and will no doubt start next Saturday Dawson won't be far behind and over the next few games fitness levels aside Robinson and Byram will become the first choice fullbacks. We now have a week to prepare for 3 games in 7 days and again AK will be thinking about managing fitness, it wouldn't shock me if its more of the same this side of the international break

We have our part to play and as fans and what a part we are playing unprecedented season ticket sales, sell outs and large away contingents and this is holiday season.  It would be an absolute crying shame if we cannot show a little bit of patience and allow the team time to gel and build the combinations across the team that can flourish

IMO the opening comments are an over reaction, not withstanding reference to the performances which are absolutely spot on we have got out of jail 2 times now however that being the case we get 4 extra points for Brizzle who we should have beaten easily and WBA who should have been long dispatched before the last 20 minutes of daftness took place but that's football for you

The original question is so far so good, I reckon you've hit the nail on the head with that, not great, not brilliant, not anything to write home about or get overly excited about, just a good old fashioned scrappy, some good, some bad performances underpinned by a 5 game unbeaten run which for me turns average into good

Yes.  Something like that.

Forest have scrapped to get points.  You need to be able to do that in the Championship.  

That's a plus.

There are areas of initial concern.  Fullbacks are being targeted.  And if you have an obvious weakness, teams will exploit it.  Wigan did.  Reading did.  Geddy was targeted in both games.  Ending up with a fractured cheek.  Wigan were physical, high tempo and high pressing.  Forest couldn't cope initially.   Watson coming on provided more steel to Forest.  I'd suggest pushing Geddy or Bridcutt into the ACM against such teams...win the battle then bring Car' on when their high pressing game is exhausted.  ...and have Watson and Colback behind them. 

Because other teams will look at Wigan and Reading's success and try to do the same.  But not all will have the quality to do what Wigan did.  (A team who have had a successful season behind them.  Momentum.  They're a 'team' and Forest have only just started that journey.)  It showed.

SA.

As for Pants. 'Get in there, that's what I pay you for.' Clough. (Though why are the DCMs passing it to Fig' who hashed it back to Pants?) I guess there was enough blame to do around yesterday.

Merits to Cash and Soudani who must started the next game.

Wigan's 6.5 keeper cleaned out or came through his own Wigan players to get a similar ball into their box.

SA.

Grabban. Did he get the service to feet?

I guess he's not a Murphy win the header type. Ergo, his 'languid' style reputation before Forest bought him.

Same for Bre' though. If you don't play the through ball to him...for him to run onto? Why bother playing him? Sell him to Blackburn. Grabban must feel frustrated. Service. To feet.

SA.

(19-08-2018, 01:41 PM)Sausage Roll Wrote: I'm satisfied with the start we've made. Not blown away but not downcast either. I'd say we probably deserve one point more than we've got, having dropped two against WBA but stolen one from Wigan.

If was probably unrealistic to expect us to immediately start playing teams off the park with 13 new players to bed in. We've shown how well we can play against West Brom, now we need to see it more consistently.

The defence needs to improve, no question. I like Osborn but it sounds like he struggled vs. Wigan so perhaps it's time to give Robinson a start in the league now. Darikwa is good going forward but gives the ball away a lot and can get caught out defensively - he got skinned for Wigan's penalty. I hope Byram gets in the team soon as I think he's the better player.

I don’t feel Fox has done much wrong, if anything Figueredo has looked the more shaky, so maybe it's time to get Dawson back in if Hefele isn't quite ready yet.

Colback does so much that isn't noticed so for me he should start every game in the league. Guedioura has been outstanding - if he's injured for a while then the choice is between Watson and Yates I guess.

Carvalho has shown in fits and starts what he's capable of, which is what I'd expect. He's barely more than a kid in a new team and country - I think it'd be wrong to expect him to run games already. His pressing and pass for Cash's goal vs. Wigan were excellent. Dias looks pacy and dangerous, just Gonclaves been a bit off the pace as yet.

It's a shame Grabban didn't bag the penalty as the goal would've done him the world of good. Feels a bit early to be writing him off yet though. I'd be using Brereton as his understudy rather than Murphy but it seems his future could lie elsewhere so I hope we bring someone else in - we'll need to.

Soudani looks a real character and livewire and has to be pushing for a start soon. Cash has shown a tremendous attitude. Left out of the team at the start of the season but played his way back into it. I do wonder if Brereton has been sulking a bit and that's why we're considering the offer?

We're four league games in, still unbeaten and at the right end of the table without having played brilliantly yet aside from one game. I think there's a lot to be optimistic about. If it gets to ten or fifteen games and we're still talking about waiting to click or hit our stride then maybe there's cause for concern. For me I'm pretty happy as I think there's so much more to come.

The Voice of Reason.   :idea: :cool: :exclamation:

That's sums things up soundly.  Happy with that.

Ten to 15 games.  We'll know more.

SA.

Forest do have options to change things up. They're just not completely fit yet in terms of Byram or Heff.

I'd like to see Bre' (Can't we at least see what Grabban and Bre' could do together?) and Bridcutt (he was Leed's Captain...and he can do the nasty stuff...) on the bench for the next match.

SA.


RE: So far, So Good? - Spangles - 19-08-2018

Maybe expectation was set too high after the euphoria of our summer recruitment drive?
I'm fairly satisfied with the start we've made and i do believe we'll slowly get stronger and better as we go on.
I really do hope we get Byram and Robinson in the starting line up regularly though otherwise we'll continue to falter.
Osborn is not a left back.
Those that think he is are deluding themselves.


RE: So far, So Good? - Kylos247 - 20-08-2018

Robinson and bryam have got to start, and Watson seemed to steady the ship at the wkend when he came on. I agree it takes teams time to gel etc etc, but movement off the ball and defending corners is surely something the training ground is for. The first 2 games gave so much hope, yes the past 3 games have been awful to watch, but can honestly say used to seeing them play poor. Play like that against Brum at wkend we will more than likely lose given their efforts against Swansea. Jota will rip oz to bits if he's left back. Come.on karanka give us a good performance and 3 points.


RE: So far, So Good? - optimistic_red - 20-08-2018

I think we're had a steady start. Agree that so many changes it's unlikely that we'd blow every team away.
The full-backs are an obvious problem, we have the replacements so get them in the team.

I'd like to see Karanka change the plan if it's not working, but he just changes players. Sometimes 4231 isn't going to do it, there are other formations, it can't be that hard to train to have a plan b or even c!

However, we are unbeaten. Still think that there is better to come and plenty of time. COYR


RE: So far, So Good? - Strawberry Avenger - 20-08-2018

(20-08-2018, 11:20 AM)optimistic_red Wrote: I think we're had a steady start. Agree that so many changes it's unlikely that we'd blow every team away.
The full-backs are an obvious problem, we have the replacements so get them in the team.

I'd like to see Karanka change the plan if it's not working, but he just changes players. Sometimes 4231 isn't going to do it, there are other formations, it can't be that hard to train to have a plan b or even c!

However, we are unbeaten. Still think that there is better to come and plenty of time. COYR

Aye.  Not panic stations yet.  But one or two signs are creeping in.

Eg.  Slow starts.  Soft fullbacks.  Soft keeper.  Not scoring a lot.  Not providing the service to score a lot or playing to our striker's strengths.

Pluses.  Unbeaten.  Play to the final whistle.  Have players on the bench (and the quality) to change matches.

3-5-2?  Maybe two strikers would help?  Would allow Forest to try combinations of Car and Lewis, Soudani and Lewis, Bre' and Lewis etc.   Or 4-1-4-1?  (Colback on his own at DCM?) Other options to try?  The 351against Bury seemed to help.

SA.


RE: So far, So Good? - TrickySte - 20-08-2018

(19-08-2018, 10:14 PM)Sizzler Wrote: Maybe expectation was set too high after the euphoria of our summer recruitment drive?

Of course it was, it's the same every summer.