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Success Of Our Recruitment - Squarered - 05-01-2024
As we seem to be in a limbo, transfer wise, until the verdict from the P&S comes out, I thought I'd rank our recent transfers on how I feel about them today.
It's subjective as, at points, Lodi and Awoniyi looked duds early last season and came good, it's always a moving picture. Is it 50% of transfers on average that are supposed to work out well? I'm sure this will provoke debate due to differing opinions! Sniffer, if this is not the right place to post this feel free to move it...
Sales for a fee last 5 years (Blue is Academy, yellow possible profit). Just looked at departures, can't remember all the fees when purchased.
RE: Success Of Our Recruitment - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 05-01-2024
The only one success that I am interested in is the one that says we are in the Premier League and have beaten Newcastle, Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Tottenham (in the cup), Brighton and drawn with Manchester City.
How we got there or who we signed along the way I honestly don't care.
That is just my opinion and it is not meant to be offensive against the thread poster (thank you SquareRed).
RE: Success Of Our Recruitment - Malcolm X - 05-01-2024
Bit generous to our keepers this year as both are big misses for me but yeah generally spot on.
Recruitment is never an exact science clearly but when you make as many signings as us you inevitably end up with more dross too and at this level too much dross can be a very expensive noose around a club's neck.
RE: Success Of Our Recruitment - ozzyten10 - 05-01-2024
Bit harsh on some misses. Freuler played a decent part and has held his value. Some were signed for worst case relegation (bowler).
Obrien was strange - he got MOTM in his first few games then binned off ( not buying illness excuse)
Scarpa we have probably made money on.
Lingard and ayew were on short term contracts so little loss (Lingard was worth a punt and raised our profile)
I’d agree with the bad loans of Origi, Santos, Bade and Taveres (to date)
RE: Success Of Our Recruitment - Reds26 - 05-01-2024
I think the ordering in value helps. It is a bit of a generalisation but the majority of the big money signings have been hits or at least held their value. It is some of the last minute squad fillers that have been less successful.
It could be argued a smaller volume of higher quality signings may have been a better investment from a squad value perspective (always key to long term ffp) , but it is always easier said than done.
As said previously, it is not always easy to get all your primary targets in one or two windows in the transition to the premiership with all its limitations both financially and team expectations. You end up padding whilst you make the full evolution over several windows. There is always the underlying fear that one doesn’t work out or gets injured and therefore you end up with two “meh” signings rather than one great (keepers?)
I think generally and without the benefit of hindsight , we have added value at least to spend along with long term improving prospectives
RE: Success Of Our Recruitment - wassy04 - 05-01-2024
(05-01-2024, 02:15 PM)Reds26 Wrote: I think the ordering in value helps. It is a bit of a generalisation but the majority of the big money signings have been hits or at least held their value. It is some of the last minute squad fillers that have been less successful.
It could be argued a smaller volume of higher quality signings may have been a better investment from a squad value perspective (always key to long term ffp) , but it is always easier said than done.
As said previously, it is not always easy to get all your primary targets in one or two windows in the transition to the premiership with all its limitations both financially and team expectations. You end up padding whilst you make the full evolution over several windows. There is always the underlying fear that one doesn’t work out or gets injured and therefore you end up with two “meh” signings rather than one great (keepers?)
I think generally and without the benefit of hindsight , we have added value at least to spend along with long term improving prospectives
We've definitely had some hits on the lower end of the scale too, players that were critical last year (and this to a lesser extent). Boly, Felipe, Aina, Aurier, Toff, plus Hendo, Navas, Lodi as loans were big successes.
Funnily enough, I don't mind the strategy to an extent, if we're saying every signing is an apporx 50% hit rate, the more shots you take, the more that will succeed.
Also, worth noting, if one player is a success and you sign two in the same position chances are the guy that failed is being kept out of the team so will be a greater fail as a byproduct of that. Toffolo being a good example, a low fee but probably considered a fail last year when Lodi was ahead of him, yet now she's shown his value as a high end backup LB and maybe startable LWB.
RE: Success Of Our Recruitment - ozzyten10 - 05-01-2024
It’s also worth remembering that players take time to settle or perform better under different coaches - Wood, Awonyi (Slow start), mangala, Sangare, Williams - all arguably getting better with time.
RE: Success Of Our Recruitment - Reds26 - 05-01-2024
I agree wassy. We have also had a number of successes in the frees and try to buys too. The point I was trying to make from the nicely illustrated tables above, is that we are far from the Man Utd situation of significant net losses from bad choices inhibiting us moving people on that don’t make it. This is obviously far more important for a new prem side that doesn’t have the supporting commercial monies Man Utd enjoy.
Whilst we may have to carry a Dennis or two until amortisation value catches up for sale (FFP), our successes overall have managed to fast track our squad value which ultimately leads to becoming more progressive. A Murillo success offsetting all the bad choices single handedly from a net sale perspective
Whilst it may seem secondary to onfield successes , the recent examples of Everton and Leicester in poor squad investment have led to their ffp issues and ultimately a quick fall down the table. A recent newcomer to the league we don’t have the luxury of mistakes the big hitters commercial revenue allow. Shelf Utd’s 2nd season investment of mcburnie / Brewster etc were quickly punished and unlike the commercial clubs they can’t then be replaced
It’s never going to be perfect but we have gambled with logic so far
RE: Success Of Our Recruitment - Reds26 - 05-01-2024
(05-01-2024, 02:51 PM)ozzyten10 Wrote: It’s also worth remembering that players take time to settle or perform better under different coaches - Wood, Awonyi (Slow start), mangala, Sangare, Williams - all arguably getting better with time.
Neco is a great example , would have been a definite loss , another year of amortisation down and a change of form and circumstance from a young and hard working player and now he is probably a net positive if sold from book value. It needs the business side to be right for us to see the long term progress to where we want to get with all its barriers (Europe)
RE: Success Of Our Recruitment - Salvatore Matrecano - 05-01-2024
Firstly thanks Squared, think this is an excellent visual and agree with most of your choices when traffic lighting.
Does it matter? Well yes as we have seen this week, this many signings eventually catches up with us. It can be argued it was necessary to get is up and keep us up. But there are 11 boxes coloured red from last season, an entire team of misses even if signed for free there are Premier League level wages and agents fees. It adds up to a lot of wasted money.
Of course every club has misses too but the aim should be to reduce it.
The encouraging thing is the number of younger players with big potential now on our books. Were we to sell any one of Murillo, Elanga, MGW, Awoniyi or Danilo we would get a substantial profit. Another few too who we would probably retain value or give a more modest profit.
Question. Which non academy players have we sold for a profit in the last 10 years? Very very few. The amount we have had to move on at a loss is eye watering though.
Surridge was one success and a decent reward. Scarpa doesn’t count, fee received was paying up his contract. Before that I think Jack Robinson? Get the acquisitions right and you can have a sustainable buy/sell model that we need to compete with the big boys.
RE: Success Of Our Recruitment - Squarered - 05-01-2024
SM - just added a table of departures for a fee over last 5 years to initial post on thread (slow day at work!)
scrolling a bit further and you get Assombalonga, Antonio and maybe Lansbury
RE: Success Of Our Recruitment - Trailer Park Tom - 05-01-2024
Christ, did we pay 10 mill for Biancone?