(17-08-2021, 09:37 AM)Mcforest Wrote: Well, we are discussing that CH has a very pragmatic style and even though it does not look pretty right now in theory it does work and the cases of showing how it can work if you get the balance between defence and attack correct is prob Atletico Madrid. However to get that system to work it takes a very long time and a lot of trial and error especially with players and also that it offers limited high success rates but can offer consistency in performances as well as longevity of a team. Over a high attack system which can at the start have big highs and even bigger lows. However the high attack when done and implemented correctly can result in fast results and success but it is more evolving and the system has to go under continues change so does not lead to team longevity.

So we are therefore thinking that maybe CH is more concerned with the teams longer term health over a fast paced success story. Is he a safe pair of hands for long-term success so we should stick or is he just stuck in his way that he had success with.

(17-08-2021, 12:34 PM)Uwantlee Wrote:

(17-08-2021, 09:37 AM)Mcforest Wrote: Well, we are discussing that CH has a very pragmatic style and even though it does not look pretty right now in theory it does work and the cases of showing how it can work if you get the balance between defence and attack correct is prob Atletico Madrid. However to get that system to work it takes a very long time and a lot of trial and error especially with players and also that it offers limited high success rates but can offer consistency in performances as well as longevity of a team. Over a high attack system which can at the start have big highs and even bigger lows. However the high attack when done and implemented correctly can result in fast results and success but it is more evolving and the system has to go under continues change so does not lead to team longevity.

So we are therefore thinking that maybe CH is more concerned with the teams longer term health over a fast paced success story. Is he a safe pair of hands for long-term success so we should stick or is he just stuck in his way that he had success with.

Personally... I think he is just stuck in his ways and too stubborn to change.

Take Saturday. Losing 2-1 against 10 men with 20 minutes still to play. He wouldn't change the system, the same system that had lost us the first game and got us in to a losing position in that game. His subs were like for like because he wouldn't adapt to what the game needed.

Playing with 2 dcm is OK when the game calls for it. But to utilise it every game home and away is just lunacy. 

To persist with players who are out of form and not playing well is beyond ridiculous. Samba should have been dropped last season and wasn't. He should have been dropped after cov and wasn't and no doubt he won't be dropped tomorrow. How many mistakes does he have to make how many points does he have to cost us.

Yates and colback together are too similar. They can break up play but when they have the ball they are too limited. We need one to break up play and one to have a little more freedom to move the ball. Neither are capable which is why we are trying g to bring back garner. However, in the meantime we have young fornah who can do that job... give him a shirt.

Johnson is and wi be an exceptional talent. That should not guarantee him a starting place. He had a good first half against cov. Since then he has been fairly ineffective. It happens. Consistency at this level will take time. He needs to come out of the team when his performance drops so he knows he needs to do better. 

Lolley... my word he has been terrible in both games. Should not have been in the 11 against Bournemouth.

CH needs to pick players on merit not reputation. Lolley was an outstanding winger 2 seasons ago. Since his injury (first one) he had struggled.

CH does not appear to be a safe pair of hands at the moment... in fact I would argue far from it. That does not mean he isn't capable but while he persists with one formation regardless, persists with the same underperformed players regardless and refuses to change in game systems he will continue to struggle.

(17-08-2021, 08:23 AM)GaribaldiRED Wrote:

(16-08-2021, 09:32 PM)SSM Wrote:

(16-08-2021, 09:19 PM)GaribaldiRED Wrote:

(16-08-2021, 08:34 PM)SSM Wrote:

(16-08-2021, 08:30 PM)wassy04 Wrote: Ha you've changed your tune since Saturday! 

I really do think the massive mitigating circumstances are being largely ignored.

Missed two weeks of pre season
No LB 
No Worrall or his backup Soh
No Garner or replacement
No striker
Two of the four goals conceded were keeper errors and one was a deflection.

Do these things not count at all?

I am a believer of the process.  If the process is right, then the result will take care of itself.

I think our process is wrong.  If you invite the opposition, they will invariably score.  If you don't looked to score a 2nd at 1-0, then you obviously open yourself up to drawing 1-1.

How do you then explain the continued success of Atletico Madrid under Diego Simeone?

Do you think that would work in England?  

It did over a decade or so ago for Jose.  But no more.

Of course it would and please don't compare Diego with Jose. Very different coaches.

(17-08-2021, 04:50 PM)SSM Wrote:

(17-08-2021, 08:23 AM)GaribaldiRED Wrote:

(16-08-2021, 09:32 PM)SSM Wrote:

(16-08-2021, 09:19 PM)GaribaldiRED Wrote:

(16-08-2021, 08:34 PM)SSM Wrote: I am a believer of the process.  If the process is right, then the result will take care of itself.

I think our process is wrong.  If you invite the opposition, they will invariably score.  If you don't looked to score a 2nd at 1-0, then you obviously open yourself up to drawing 1-1.

How do you then explain the continued success of Atletico Madrid under Diego Simeone?

Do you think that would work in England?  

It did over a decade or so ago for Jose.  But no more.

Of course it would and please don't compare Diego with Jose. Very different coaches.

Fair point, one has won the Champions League with 2 different sides and domestic titles with 4 different sides.  The other, hasn't.

The main point was - La Liga and the Championship are entirely different leagues.  Obviously, there's far more quality and consideration in La Liga.  But the Championship is much more intense and you do not get away with seeking to absorb as much pressure as CH sets us up to do.

Our process is wrong.  The case in point is the results over his 40 or so games here.