(02-12-2019, 04:18 PM)Username Wrote: No point trying mate, people have made their minds up.

(02-12-2019, 12:07 PM)Noor 1 Crew Wrote:

(02-12-2019, 10:16 AM)optimistic_red Wrote: I think we need to forget the £13m. We have all watched him enough to know that it was too much money, but that's not his fault.
If we treated equally (ie not sing his name for doing up his boot laces, or expect him to win the match for us) he *may* improve.

Clearly has a lot of talent, and I hope Lamouchi can unlock it.

Difficult. It's our record tranfer fee ever paid and by some margin. It's down in history. We can't just pretend that it never happened.

(02-12-2019, 05:25 PM)the jock Wrote: 4 years ago in the championship zach clough scored 7 goals in 28 games for bolton in same positon as carvalho, at 20 years of age

(02-12-2019, 05:04 PM)Alf Wrote:

(02-12-2019, 12:07 PM)Noor 1 Crew Wrote:

(02-12-2019, 10:16 AM)optimistic_red Wrote: I think we need to forget the £13m. We have all watched him enough to know that it was too much money, but that's not his fault.
If we treated equally (ie not sing his name for doing up his boot laces, or expect him to win the match for us) he *may* improve.

Clearly has a lot of talent, and I hope Lamouchi can unlock it.

Difficult. It's our record tranfer fee ever paid and by some margin. It's down in history. We can't just pretend that it never happened.

Think both posts makes good points.

I've got to say, it's grown very thin hearing his name chanted most matches for doing nothing, whilst the 11 on the pitch are usually winning the game for us. 

Few interesting stats:

Season 17/18, by Dec 2nd 2017 Tyler Walker played in 11 games and scored 4 goals. Mostly from playing in an unfamiliar position out on the wing

Season 18/19 Joao Carvalho has played in 14 games, and scored 2 goals.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's clear Carvalho has something special & the stats alone don't tell the full picture, but it does make me chuckle that our own are viewed as so disposable, yet if I were to suggest loaning Carvalho out to Lincoln I'd come in from dogs abuse from certain fans.

(02-12-2019, 07:45 PM)wassy04 Wrote:

(02-12-2019, 05:04 PM)Alf Wrote:

(02-12-2019, 12:07 PM)Noor 1 Crew Wrote:

(02-12-2019, 10:16 AM)optimistic_red Wrote: I think we need to forget the £13m. We have all watched him enough to know that it was too much money, but that's not his fault.
If we treated equally (ie not sing his name for doing up his boot laces, or expect him to win the match for us) he *may* improve.

Clearly has a lot of talent, and I hope Lamouchi can unlock it.

Difficult. It's our record tranfer fee ever paid and by some margin. It's down in history. We can't just pretend that it never happened.

Think both posts makes good points.

I've got to say, it's grown very thin hearing his name chanted most matches for doing nothing, whilst the 11 on the pitch are usually winning the game for us. 

Few interesting stats:

Season 17/18, by Dec 2nd 2017 Tyler Walker played in 11 games and scored 4 goals. Mostly from playing in an unfamiliar position out on the wing

Season 18/19 Joao Carvalho has played in 14 games, and scored 2 goals.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's clear Carvalho has something special & the stats alone don't tell the full picture, but it does make me chuckle that our own are viewed as so disposable, yet if I were to suggest loaning Carvalho out to Lincoln I'd come in from dogs abuse from certain fans.

Ok only fair to compare to other players in our current team:

League stats only:
Lolley - 17 games 3 goals 3 assists
Silva - 18 games 0 goals 2 assists
Ameobi - 17 games 2 goals 3 assists

I’m not saying I think Carv should start but it’s unfair throwing negative stats without the comparable ones. I’m aware this is about Carvalho but it’s fair to say none of our attacking midfielders are exactly offering loads in an attacking sense.

(02-12-2019, 07:53 PM)Alf Wrote:

(02-12-2019, 07:45 PM)wassy04 Wrote:

(02-12-2019, 05:04 PM)Alf Wrote:

(02-12-2019, 12:07 PM)Noor 1 Crew Wrote:

(02-12-2019, 10:16 AM)optimistic_red Wrote: I think we need to forget the £13m. We have all watched him enough to know that it was too much money, but that's not his fault.
If we treated equally (ie not sing his name for doing up his boot laces, or expect him to win the match for us) he *may* improve.

Clearly has a lot of talent, and I hope Lamouchi can unlock it.

Difficult. It's our record tranfer fee ever paid and by some margin. It's down in history. We can't just pretend that it never happened.

Think both posts makes good points.

I've got to say, it's grown very thin hearing his name chanted most matches for doing nothing, whilst the 11 on the pitch are usually winning the game for us. 

Few interesting stats:

Season 17/18, by Dec 2nd 2017 Tyler Walker played in 11 games and scored 4 goals. Mostly from playing in an unfamiliar position out on the wing

Season 18/19 Joao Carvalho has played in 14 games, and scored 2 goals.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's clear Carvalho has something special & the stats alone don't tell the full picture, but it does make me chuckle that our own are viewed as so disposable, yet if I were to suggest loaning Carvalho out to Lincoln I'd come in from dogs abuse from certain fans.

Ok only fair to compare to other players in our current team:

League stats only:
Lolley - 17 games 3 goals 3 assists
Silva - 18 games 0 goals 2 assists
Ameobi - 17 games 2 goals 3 assists

I’m not saying I think Carv should start but it’s unfair throwing negative stats without the comparable ones. I’m aware this is about Carvalho but it’s fair to say none of our attacking midfielders are exactly offering loads in an attacking sense.

Thing is all 3 of those players you list defend & win the ball back more in 1 game than Carvalho does in 10. Whereas Walker, like Carvalho, is purely an attacking option. (yes I know Carvalho works hard & tracks back etc. but he rarely wins us the ball back etc)

It just makes me laugh how easily some write Walker off, yet how writing Carvalho off would be deemed sacrilege by some. There's not that much between them in terms of where they are as players. Both at a level which would see them starting regularly in League 1, or warming the bench at a Championship club

(02-12-2019, 01:19 PM)Derby My Arse Wrote:

(02-12-2019, 12:07 PM)Noor 1 Crew Wrote:

(02-12-2019, 10:16 AM)optimistic_red Wrote: I think we need to forget the £13m. We have all watched him enough to know that it was too much money, but that's not his fault.
If we treated equally (ie not sing his name for doing up his boot laces, or expect him to win the match for us) he *may* improve.

Clearly has a lot of talent, and I hope Lamouchi can unlock it.

Difficult. It's our record tranfer fee ever paid and by some margin. It's down in history. We can't just pretend that it never happened.

Yes, we can't and we shouldn't just sweep the fee under the carpet.